So I'm hoping you didn't bring up this topic just for me (although I can make your life miserable if you don't keep doing that ;)) but I really do love Watho. I think there are two main reasons for this - one: in my brain she's somehow tied to that red-headed witch in "The Fisherman and His Soul" by Oscar Wilde who is a really intriguing character; and two: the phrase "... she had a wolf in her mind... but the wolf had made her cruel". This doesn't excuse any of her actions but it makes her sympathetic. Her character is almost a hearkening back to the scientists in the first story we discussed here, "The Exiles". Not that they were are ruthless as she, but they all warn of that drive to know for the sake of knowing instead of desiring to know for the sake of wisdom and growth. Watho seems to disintigrate as the story progresses, her thirst for mere knowing driving her to ultimately become the wolf that hounds her. As for whether we're supposed to feel sorry for her, I don't think so. At least, not in the same way you would feel sorry for something helpless. She's obviousyl troubled but I don't get the sense that the wolf entered without invitation, and she seems to do nothing to fight it. So sympathize, maybe, and definitely pity, but not "feel sorry". ("It will be Amusing, or Diverting. Never 'Such Fun'" - Completely unnecessary Cold Comfort Farm quote and possibly annoying inside joke. Sorry). -Seth
Hi, everyone! Sorry I missed the last few discussions.
I pretty much agree with Seth that the reaction to Watho should be more 'sympathy' than 'sorry for.' I would, however, like to draw attention to a particular detail that I thought was really interesting; she's described as still having a bit of a conscience left, but only "just enough to trouble her" and make her angrier.
The impression I got is that she certainly wasn't always evil, even when the story began. She was manipulative and deceitful, but not entirely bad. I think there was a real potential for reform in her, all the way up to near the end when she was consumed by her 'wolf' and tried to kill her wards. So, I certainly felt for her and didn't feel much vindictive pleasure at her death.
On the other hand, I thought it was a very nice touch that she was ultimately done in by her own twistedness: if she hadn't tortured Photogen with that one arrow, she would have succeeded. So, she's the kind of character whom you watch in horrified fascination as she dissolves more and more into self-destructive evilness, and you feel kind of bad for her, but are relieved when the process is cut off.
That's a good point, BT! I really loved that he brought out that it was her resentfulness (hurting Photogen because he wasn't what she'd hoped) and that is what allowed him to kill her, that her cruelty weakened her magic. And you and Seth are right that pity is the better response..and sort of a sense that "there but for the grace of God go I.." as well, I think.
I think I felt a little pity for Watho when she died, and when the wolf was originally mentioned.
Nycteris--innocent soul!--was the only character I loved wholeheartedly. Photogen was thoughtless and often annoying; despite his acquaintance with the light, he seems the more likely of the two to be in danger of becoming like Watho--which, since both were under her influence throughout their lives, both of them should have been susceptible to. Whether he was preserved by love or by not being particularly clever, I couldn't quite say; both, perhaps.
My favorite thing about this story, upon re-reading, isn't necessarily deep: I love the beauty Nycteris sees in the night. For such a short fairy tale, it's splendidly vivid and lovely.
Sorry to be a million years late to the party, but this was a great choice, Jenna!
Yes! to feeling a tiny bit sorry for Watho, though not as sorry as I felt for the subjects of her "experiment." Which is a deliciously weird and cruel and weird experiment. I wonder if George MacDonald was influenced by the alleged "first language" experiments.
This story is so hypervisual that I hope there is a movie; in any case; I've been mentally casting one in my mind. Can we film in Tanzania? I think that might work.
Photogen is thoughtless and annoying, though of course his upbringing has been very different from Nycteris’ -- he's been taught a kind of exuberance and physicality and expansiveness, while Nycteris has been taught to stay where she is and listen and be patient. So Photogen's thoughtlessness makes sense to me. I assume he grows out of it eventually. Anyway, if I were making a movie, he would have to.
I didn't quite buy them getting married at the end, though it was adorable that P. ended up liking the night best because of Nycteris, and vice versa.
Also, Photogen's very serious gender norms and Nycteris’ complete obliviousness to them made me giggle. "Oh, I see, you say you aren't a girl because you're afraid and I'm not. It all makes sense now."
It is in reality a great and useful piece of information. I'm happy that you just shared this useful info with us. Please keep us informed like this. Thanks for sharing. My website > Dreambox
Laura- I really like your description of Photogen as exuberant and expansive, it makes him much more sympathetic. And Anonymous, Jan 14, 2013 at 7:39 PM, you're spam. Go away. Nobody cares about your website "dreambox". -Seth
So I'm hoping you didn't bring up this topic just for me (although I can make your life miserable if you don't keep doing that ;)) but I really do love Watho. I think there are two main reasons for this - one: in my brain she's somehow tied to that red-headed witch in "The Fisherman and His Soul" by Oscar Wilde who is a really intriguing character; and two: the phrase "... she had a wolf in her mind... but the wolf had made her cruel". This doesn't excuse any of her actions but it makes her sympathetic. Her character is almost a hearkening back to the scientists in the first story we discussed here, "The Exiles". Not that they were are ruthless as she, but they all warn of that drive to know for the sake of knowing instead of desiring to know for the sake of wisdom and growth. Watho seems to disintigrate as the story progresses, her thirst for mere knowing driving her to ultimately become the wolf that hounds her.
ReplyDeleteAs for whether we're supposed to feel sorry for her, I don't think so. At least, not in the same way you would feel sorry for something helpless. She's obviousyl troubled but I don't get the sense that the wolf entered without invitation, and she seems to do nothing to fight it. So sympathize, maybe, and definitely pity, but not "feel sorry". ("It will be Amusing, or Diverting. Never 'Such Fun'" - Completely unnecessary Cold Comfort Farm quote and possibly annoying inside joke. Sorry).
-Seth
And yes, I misspelled "obviously". -Seth
DeleteHi, everyone! Sorry I missed the last few discussions.
ReplyDeleteI pretty much agree with Seth that the reaction to Watho should be more 'sympathy' than 'sorry for.' I would, however, like to draw attention to a particular detail that I thought was really interesting; she's described as still having a bit of a conscience left, but only "just enough to trouble her" and make her angrier.
The impression I got is that she certainly wasn't always evil, even when the story began. She was manipulative and deceitful, but not entirely bad. I think there was a real potential for reform in her, all the way up to near the end when she was consumed by her 'wolf' and tried to kill her wards. So, I certainly felt for her and didn't feel much vindictive pleasure at her death.
On the other hand, I thought it was a very nice touch that she was ultimately done in by her own twistedness: if she hadn't tortured Photogen with that one arrow, she would have succeeded. So, she's the kind of character whom you watch in horrified fascination as she dissolves more and more into self-destructive evilness, and you feel kind of bad for her, but are relieved when the process is cut off.
That's a good point, BT! I really loved that he brought out that it was her resentfulness (hurting Photogen because he wasn't what she'd hoped) and that is what allowed him to kill her, that her cruelty weakened her magic. And you and Seth are right that pity is the better response..and sort of a sense that "there but for the grace of God go I.." as well, I think.
ReplyDeleteCommenting terribly late on my own pick... sorry!
ReplyDeleteI think I felt a little pity for Watho when she died, and when the wolf was originally mentioned.
Nycteris--innocent soul!--was the only character I loved wholeheartedly. Photogen was thoughtless and often annoying; despite his acquaintance with the light, he seems the more likely of the two to be in danger of becoming like Watho--which, since both were under her influence throughout their lives, both of them should have been susceptible to. Whether he was preserved by love or by not being particularly clever, I couldn't quite say; both, perhaps.
My favorite thing about this story, upon re-reading, isn't necessarily deep: I love the beauty Nycteris sees in the night. For such a short fairy tale, it's splendidly vivid and lovely.
Merry Christmas!
Sorry to be a million years late to the party, but this was a great choice, Jenna!
ReplyDeleteYes! to feeling a tiny bit sorry for Watho, though not as sorry as I felt for the subjects of her "experiment." Which is a deliciously weird and cruel and weird experiment. I wonder if George MacDonald was influenced by the alleged "first language" experiments.
This story is so hypervisual that I hope there is a movie; in any case; I've been mentally casting one in my mind. Can we film in Tanzania? I think that might work.
Photogen is thoughtless and annoying, though of course his upbringing has been very different from Nycteris’ -- he's been taught a kind of exuberance and physicality and expansiveness, while Nycteris has been taught to stay where she is and listen and be patient. So Photogen's thoughtlessness makes sense to me. I assume he grows out of it eventually. Anyway, if I were making a movie, he would have to.
I didn't quite buy them getting married at the end, though it was adorable that P. ended up liking the night best because of Nycteris, and vice versa.
Also, Photogen's very serious gender norms and Nycteris’ complete obliviousness to them made me giggle. "Oh, I see, you say you aren't a girl because you're afraid and I'm not. It all makes sense now."
It is in reality a great and useful piece of information.
ReplyDeleteI'm happy that you just shared this useful info with us. Please keep us informed like this. Thanks for sharing.
My website > Dreambox
Laura- I really like your description of Photogen as exuberant and expansive, it makes him much more sympathetic.
ReplyDeleteAnd Anonymous, Jan 14, 2013 at 7:39 PM, you're spam. Go away. Nobody cares about your website "dreambox".
-Seth